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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 22, 2009 2:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: No Furthur Forward

Am I the only one who feels utterly dispirited by Furthur? I’ve tried listening to some of the recordings available on the Archive and they just depress me. For Phil and Bob to hook up with a copycat guitar player from a tribute band in a forlorn attempt to recapture past glories seems to me a gesture in futility.

Most of the time these days Bob sounds like he’s just phoning it in and he looks absolutely riddled with boredom on any clips I’ve seen. Is he doing this out of some misguided sense of duty? Phil on the other hand is a trooper, a real eager beaver, and looks like he’s having fun. It just really surprises me that he’d agree to this. More than anyone post Garcia he was the one who kept the music alive, and he did that by exploring different things to do with it, by bringing on board people like Jimmy Herring, Steve Kimock, Jackie Greene, Warren Haynes and Larry Campbell, who respected and loved the spirit of the music but didn’t want to waste time making a picture perfect reconstruction of the past.

We don’t need anyone pretending to be Garcia, or indeed the Grateful Dead. With the vast recorded legacy we have we can hear the real thing any time we want to.

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Oct 22, 2009 3:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I saw both Dead and Furthur shows this year. I had a thoroughly good time at both shows, and posted as much in my next-day reviews here. However, there’s no contradiction in the fact that I agree 100% with you about the relatively lackluster sound compared to Grateful Dead music. Being at a live show is a multi-dimensional experience, and for me the vibe, the people, the venue, AND the music all provided a fantastic night out. Also, I’ll admit there’s still a part of me that finds it exhilarating to be up close to musicians that I love (no, not man-crushes, mind you). But when you strip the music away from the actual live experience, I don’t think it stands up. I shelled out the $10 for the soundboard recording of the Shoreline Dead show, thinking that surely it would bring back some of the magic of the experience I had, but I don’t think I’ve ever chosen to finish even a single song, because I always conclude “I could be listening to a real GD show right now."

As for the aping of Garcia, I preferred Warren over Jeff because he seemed like more of a genuine artist to me. However, I think there’s a big chunk of people who simply want to recapture the magic of GD shows gone by, and to them there may not seem to be better alternatives.



This post was modified by cosmic charlie dupree on 2009-10-22 22:21:15

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 22, 2009 3:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Pretty much same here - saw the Dead and had lots of fun. Was impressed with Warren.

But haven't really gone back and listened to the 'tape' - I did listen to the show I went to a few times shortly after but not recently.

I am diggin this Shady Groove stuff w/ Melvin Seals

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Oct 22, 2009 4:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Since Garcia died , it seems to me , the surviving members have gone out of their way to get guitarists that DO NOT sound like Jerry . The whole point, to be different from the old band . Maybe Phil, and Bob just thought it would be interesting for a change to go with someone who does sound like Jerry !
I don't know how long they plan to do this, I got the impression this was not meant to be a permanent band . Most friends I know who went liked it .
By the way, anyone know what the boys have planed for next year ? Dead? Further? Phil & Friends?Ratdog? Crusader Rabbit?...

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 22, 2009 2:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Agreed. I chose not to go, and while I'm sure folks had fun, I can only listen to a bit before moving on. Then again, I was surprised by some of The Dead moments last year, but didn't feel like I missed out by not going to shows. I'm funny in that I would MUCH MUCH rather see the Pixies' Doolittle tour or upcoming Pavement reunion as opposed to seeing these guys do anything. The main reason is that I go and want to hear Jer and my head, heart and ears can't let me escape that fact. I know he's gone - but I can't get over it when I go to see any other incarnations. Phil with the Little Feat guys and Robben Ford was most fun I've had with any post Jer incarnation -because it was combining two great bands for unique stuff (Feat meets Dead meets Trane on A Love Supreme).

Please note that you did not mention Ryan Adams. Today's 10th anniversary of a show I saw in Raleigh right after he put out Heartbreaker features Caitlyn joining him for a little Whiskeytown material. The Brewery's main room holds, at most, 150 (packed like sardines). I believe the final Whiskeytown show was at the Cat's Cradle on New Year's Eve (How I brought in 2000). IT was - here's info on same:
http://www.ryanadamsarchive.com/showthread.php?t=276

Not the best Ryan show, but worth checking out:
http://www.archive.org/details/ryanadams1999-10-22.sbd.flac16



This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-10-22 21:54:12

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Poster: amosearle Date: Oct 22, 2009 8:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Carrboro? That's just sad.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 22, 2009 8:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Well, that version of the Cradle is technically in Carrboro. And I prefer not having to cross the street and enter Chapel Hell...

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Poster: amosearle Date: Oct 23, 2009 6:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Oops, brain fart. I was imagining Concord/Kannapolis in my head. North Carolina is a much more cool state than South Carolina, but has many stark contrasts in terms of cultures vibrant vs. scary. I lived for a while in the middle of nowhere, NC and I still wonder "what the hell was I thinking" 20 years later.

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Poster: shorthopper88 Date: Oct 22, 2009 4:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I have the feeling that bobby and phil dont really get too worked up over the whole "what will people think" issue when their deciding who they want to play with.

The way i see it, your comparing Furthur to the Grateful Dead, put all preconceptions aside and just listen to it for what it is.
Putting these highly subjective opinions to the side, i would totally rather listen to Furthur than the Dead, I quickly grew sick of the wah-wah, allman bro's sound

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Poster: angular Date: Oct 22, 2009 4:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I agree. To me the music of Furthur sounds lethargic, as does The Dead. I understand they are getting older (by the minute), but they used to make turns at 60 mph. Now it seems as if they are in a school zone (and talking on their cell phone). I much prefer the GD or PLF (with any guitarist).

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Poster: buscameby Date: Oct 23, 2009 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I have resisted commenting on this post for a day now but have to put in my 2 cents.

I chose not to attend the "Dead " show here in Denver because of the ridiculous price that a "knock off " band was charging at a huge cavern of a arena. But not because I didn't want to hear somebody else play "GD" music.

Since Jerry died I have listened to many attempts to replicate "the sound" some have been good, some have been weak and some have been great, BUT DIFFERENT.

I always attended shows to get the VIBE. Jerry didn't always have the vibe but he had it more often than not. I will never forget sticking my tongue out at him and turning my back when he SUCKED at Red Rocks on 9-6-85, he was so twisted by the "junk" that he had to go get a fix during the set. But I was still camped out all night to be in line at 7 am the next morning after sleeping on the ground across the street on the Hog Back. And I was damn sure repaid for it with one of the best shows I ever saw out of over 150.

I do believe that Phil has carried on the "VIBE" better than anyone else. His shows brought back the "ole tunes" and really got the long jams cooking. DSO has done a great job of respecting the memory and giving "LIVE" performances of music that would have been destined for only replays on home stereos. What a shame it would have been if I never got to see another 20 something hippie chick dance and swirl with that smile that made me wish I still had the gift.

Yes, I saw the "Dead" in several incarnations and some were good and some were lackluster but I was never sorry I went to be in the company of the other souls who loved the music, if only for a chance to remember when the MAJIK touched me and let me shake my bones and spin away from the mundane and transcend the boring day to day grind of a shitty job or traffic jam that kept me from getting to my next appointment.

Live music and sharing was a huge part of the experience so lets not get to down on them when one of these groups goes on stage to ignite the MUSE for one more expression of the gift we shared or wish we weren't old enough to experience first hand.

LVX

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 22, 2009 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

"Most of the time these days Bob sounds like he’s just phoning it in and he looks absolutely riddled with boredom on any clips I’ve seen. Is he doing this out of some misguided sense of duty? Phil on the other hand is a trooper, a real eager beaver, and looks like he’s having fun."

That certainly sums up the visuals I've taken in...I am sure others that have enjoyed themselves will chime in, and I for one was surprised that the DEAD got better from fall of 08 thru spring of 09, but again, the disks I rec'd from a kind friend of the late spring MSG show go (quietly) unused the past few months...I just don't get it.

But, recall, I didn't get much past 82.

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Poster: daliguana Date: Oct 22, 2009 6:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I have listened to all the Dead shows and Furthur shows from the latest tour and have been pleased by almost all the shows. Couple nights ago an old college buddy stopped by unexpectedly while I was listening to the dsbd of the Furthur show from the 20th - we had a rockin good time of it. No, its not ever going to be the good ole grateful dead - ever. But I'll take what I can get. Didn't get a chance to see either F or D live this tour, but I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from listening. I have appreciated the Furthur shows more than the Dead shows. What can I say? Phil and Bobby are still bringing it, in my opinion. Lots of love for Jeff as well, I think he's been doing a bang-up job on the keys. I sincerely loved JK's contribution to the jam as well.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 22, 2009 6:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Other than a general warning it doesn't serve much of a purpose 'round here to be critical of the knock off bands, some folks just like having the live vibe pumped at them. Hell, look at all the positive reviews for 91-95 shows here that could have been phoned in by a Toledo bar band. With apologies to Toledo.

I'm up with the fact that no band will ever have the soul of the Grateful Dead because Jerry hasn't been reincarnated as Jerry yet. What's the sense in trying, for at least ten years Jerry even had problems being Jerry.

Somewhere on here is a thread that said that Warren Haynes sounded too much like the Allman Brothers when he played with the band. WTF? Was there a Dark Star>Whipping Post tease>Dark Star that I missed? of course he sounds like the Allman Brothers, it's etched into his soul. Give the man some cred for standing in the shoes and bringing another taste to the banquet.

Same with Phil & Jackie Green, hugely talented, dissed for not being old enough to have a big old beard and wear an XL black T-shirt.

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Poster: amosearle Date: Oct 22, 2009 8:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Excuse me, but an XXL at the very least.

Yes, let's not forget the fun of having a night on the town. A few friends, a kind moment and the DSO make for a few hours of fun. Certainly the sound many of us crave.

As for who played what in the where now, there's only so much hippie navel gazing that can be good for anyone, even on the forum!

Further sounded like a good time on the Archive, but not something I'd burn to disk for the collection. Will I see DSO again on the right night if the missus is up for it? Sure.

Methinks Jerry would poke fun at us who takes us seriously too much.

This post was modified by amosearle on 2009-10-23 03:01:59

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 22, 2009 7:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

"With apologies to Toledo" - that may be the hardest laugh I've had in several weeks. Thanks!

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 22, 2009 2:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

"We don’t need anyone pretending to be Garcia, or indeed the Grateful Dead. With the vast recorded legacy we have we can hear the real thing any time we want to."

That is exactly why I haven't listened to any Further, or The Dead or DSO etc. I understand why people go to the shows but unless you went and want to relive the experience I can't see why one would listen to it when there is so much of the real thing to explore here.

So since I haven't listened to any to it I can't comment on how it sounds. I have heard others say they like it though.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 22, 2009 2:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Okay, this is a first..."I haven't listened to it any of it...now, as for my critique, I have this to say about that:..."

Outstanding! You know, L, you and I are alot more alike than your appreciation of the 70s would indicate.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 22, 2009 5:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

At first I didn't like hearing Furthur ,until we had a video on deadvids last thursday Bus party about the latest Furthur live concert ,and it was superb ,I totally liked tht one concert if not the others !

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Poster: high flow Date: Oct 22, 2009 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Having seen DSO in the recent past, I can say that the recorded experience does not convey the live experience. The guitarist for DSO is more than a copycat(I prefer the copycat over Warren Haynes for GD purposes.) and they are more than a tribute band. I can't argue that they are not a tribute band, but the quality of the performance I saw was beyond novelty.

I went with low expectations. Post Jerry, I have never seen GD music performed to a level which I would recommend. That changed when I saw DSO. It was ALL about hearing these songs played live, loud and skillfully.

I simply enjoyed it for what it was and forgot about what it wasn't.

I think the Further experiment will likely be more successful than past attempts the band has made.

**Addition - I get the feeling that perhaps DSO is better equipped to perform this music than the surviving members. DSO has been touring(hard) as a unit for years now. They are young and full of passion for the music. There was nothing lifeless or lackluster about the DSO performance I witnessed.

This post was modified by high flow on 2009-10-22 22:18:11

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 22, 2009 3:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Speaking of DSO, My buddy just called and he got us two tix for DSO at Nokia Theater NYC - Sat after Thanksgiving. He got them at the box so only $59 for two tix.

Never seen em before but I'm thinking it will be better than the Phil & Bob video I just saw.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 22, 2009 3:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

Ha! I posted link and couldn't even sit through it.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 22, 2009 4:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

It was that link that prompted my Furthur musings. I couldn't sit through the damn thing either.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 22, 2009 4:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I may have been harsh in dismissing the DSO guitarist as just a copycat. I certainly take your point that that the DSO have a great deal of passion for the music (I'd argue strongly that Phil does too). I've never had the opportunity to see DSO perform live but I imagine it's rather like seeing the Counterfeit Stones - a hell of a lot more fun than the 'real' thing.

Furthur, it seems to me, is a cynical exercise in giving the fans what they want, a chance to relive past glories or to see something they missed out on first time round. I don't know why they don't just call themselves the Grateful Dead and have done with it. Nobody original left in the Temptations but Otis Williams after all...

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Poster: vapors Date: Oct 22, 2009 5:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I’d take the next chance I get to see DSO in an open space. Bobby has not appealed to me in a long time, but whatever any of them wish to do to make a buck or further the experience is ok with me. I appreciate being able to so readily sample what’s new through the magnificence of the archive, but see no value in trying to collect it. There’s much better work to be about in that regard. Agreed on Phil - he has kept it interesting with past formations.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 22, 2009 5:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

DSO is another sort of Dead music rather unsettling to me . I don't quite understand how deadheads can really like DSO ,but if it is good vibes ,good fun ,why not ! I still can't hear a whole DSO concert ,for now , but I was told they are really ok !

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Poster: vapors Date: Oct 22, 2009 5:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

It's about experiencing the music - and dancing to it while its being made - that makes the difference. Listening to recordings probably isn't going to be a good substitute - to me DSO is all about that 'short time to be there'.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 22, 2009 7:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No Furthur Forward

I see what you mean , jelly bean !